Air, Magnets, String & Tape

by ct0517 on Quad 57Matrix 800Music ReferenceAudio ResearchkrellEminent TechnologyJC VerdierLa PlatineStuderDynaudioTimeter Aridyne

B&W Electrostatic DM70c with 13 inch Woofers - John Bowers favorite Speaker. Maybe mine too 8^0 time will tell.

B&W Electrostatic DM70c with 13 inch Woofers - John Bowers favorite Speaker. Maybe mine too 8^0 time will tell.

Lucky - will be acting in the capacity of the RCA Victor Dog.

Lucky - will be acting in the capacity of the RCA Victor Dog.

Custom build ET 2.5 Tonearm from Bruce Thigpen - A 19 PSI design.I am using the new Long I Beam. Aluminum Gooseneck. Single Shot WBT wiring, Aluminum mount plate. Magnesium armtube. Double Leaf Spring and damping trough. If you are an ET2 owner you know what I am talking about :^).... Advantages of the ET2 airbearing linear tracker tonearm - no VTF changes with VTA adjustment, no offset setup, antiskating and immunity to acoustic feedback, as it rides on film of air.

Custom build ET 2.5 Tonearm from Bruce Thigpen - A 19 PSI design.I am using the new Long I Beam. Aluminum Gooseneck. Single Shot WBT wiring, Aluminum mount plate. Magnesium armtube. Double Leaf Spring and damping trough. If you are an ET2 owner you know what I am talking about :^).... Advantages of the ET2 airbearing linear tracker tonearm - no VTF changes with VTA adjustment, no offset setup, antiskating and immunity to acoustic feedback, as it rides on film of air.

Are u able to find the Audiophile Kitty ? My daughters Bengal

Are u able to find the Audiophile Kitty ? My daughters Bengal

Studer Tape Deck - Pictures show my tech Roger Ginsley working on my machine. DO NOT own without a tech. Used to play 15 IPS tapes.

Studer Tape Deck - Pictures show my tech Roger Ginsley working on my machine. DO NOT own without a tech. Used to play 15 IPS tapes.

JC Verdier La Platine Granito Original Design - Thread driven, Magnetic Levitation No thrust bearing - For levitation think Magnet Train with no electronics. The Magnetic Bearing and the Pneumatic Air suspension isolate this turntable from the shelf. The prime considerations on a shelf become strength and a design that doesn't move over time. The Custom built Air Bearing ET 2.5 tonearm completes the package. Thread technique. The thread needs to be applied loose. This isolates the influence from the outboard motor. The platter design only needs alternating pushes to stay at speed. Motor speed changes take 5 seconds. that's how little affect the motor has on the platter. Thread is setup so it is at the very bottom of the platter. Think about how you would help a friend move a couch. Where do you hold it? Same physics principles apply here. Double magnets also produce braking/damping which helps to deal with the records behavior.

JC Verdier La Platine Granito Original Design - Thread driven, Magnetic Levitation No thrust bearing - For levitation think Magnet Train with no electronics. The Magnetic Bearing and the Pneumatic Air suspension isolate this turntable from the shelf. The prime considerations on a shelf become strength and a design that doesn't move over time. The Custom built Air Bearing ET 2.5 tonearm completes the package. Thread technique. The thread needs to be applied loose. This isolates the influence from the outboard motor. The platter design only needs alternating pushes to stay at speed. Motor speed changes take 5 seconds. that's how little affect the motor has on the platter. Thread is setup so it is at the very bottom of the platter. Think about how you would help a friend move a couch. Where do you hold it? Same physics principles apply here. Double magnets also produce braking/damping which helps to deal with the records behavior.

Record Cleaning

Record Cleaning

Straight Shot Phono Wiring - WBT connectors and your choice of wire

Straight Shot Phono Wiring - WBT connectors and your choice of wire

Goldilocks and the 3 Turntables - Comparing Turntables - circa Jan 2010 - Audiophilia Nervosa level 4 out of 5. Same Room, Same Electricity, Same speakers, Same Amp, Same tonearm / cartridge / wiring. The moving target - the ***TABLES*** Belt Drive (converted to thread), Idler and Direct Drive - Significant differences.

Goldilocks and the 3 Turntables - Comparing Turntables - circa Jan 2010 - Audiophilia Nervosa level 4 out of 5. Same Room, Same Electricity, Same speakers, Same Amp, Same tonearm / cartridge / wiring. The moving target - the ***TABLES*** Belt Drive (converted to thread), Idler and Direct Drive - Significant differences.

Custom DIY Build SP10 MKII - Armpod and SP10 Bolted into the Plinth. 2nd ET 2 High Pressure Manifold - Taught me about resonances, vibrations....

Custom DIY Build SP10 MKII - Armpod and SP10 Bolted into the Plinth. 2nd ET 2 High Pressure Manifold - Taught me about resonances, vibrations....

ARC Stack - Modded SP11 MKII. NOS Amperex Bugle Boys + DAC8 (in middle)..... Adjustable Gain. ARC Hot Rod Option. It is OLD SCHOOL no remote but it is beside my chair so I don't need one. It is setup up one way for Digital and another Way for Analog (Vinyl). NO XLR connections so you need to be anal with your interconnects setup. If not scared so far read on....Compared in room - have had SP8, SP10, newer Ref Models, Allnic, Krell, Classe, Bryston and some others. They got this one right. If you don't need that remote and we are talking 2 Channel Audio with Analog Vinyl - Very hard to beat. Hybrid design with separate power supply box with Toroidal Transformer

ARC Stack - Modded SP11 MKII. NOS Amperex Bugle Boys + DAC8 (in middle)..... Adjustable Gain. ARC Hot Rod Option. It is OLD SCHOOL no remote but it is beside my chair so I don't need one. It is setup up one way for Digital and another Way for Analog (Vinyl). NO XLR connections so you need to be anal with your interconnects setup. If not scared so far read on....Compared in room - have had SP8, SP10, newer Ref Models, Allnic, Krell, Classe, Bryston and some others. They got this one right. If you don't need that remote and we are talking 2 Channel Audio with Analog Vinyl - Very hard to beat. Hybrid design with separate power supply box with Toroidal Transformer

In Room ET 2.5 Air Regulator

In Room ET 2.5 Air Regulator

ET 2.5 Air Pump - Timeter Aridyne

ET 2.5 Air Pump - Timeter Aridyne

Quad 57 - Wayne Picquet w/ Music Reference RM10 designed for them. Pics show my initial setup in the big city and bringing them home. See last Picture on this page for the current setup.

Quad 57 - Wayne Picquet w/ Music Reference RM10 designed for them. Pics show my initial setup in the big city and bringing them home. See last Picture on this page for the current setup.

Modded Music Reference RM9 - Amperex NOS Input tubes, Mullard KT88 power tubes - Modjeski Hand wound Transformers

Modded Music Reference RM9 - Amperex NOS Input tubes, Mullard KT88 power tubes - Modjeski Hand wound Transformers

Krell FPB600 (20amp design) + KRELL B&W 800 Series Bass Alignment Filter

Krell FPB600 (20amp design) + KRELL B&W 800 Series Bass Alignment Filter

Matrix 800 - One time effort All Assault from B&W. Only a few hundred pairs made ever made. Four Factory isolated crossovers per speaker had upgraded components, 8 WBT connectors per speaker and Silver Wiring standard. Mine are Quad Wired. Can also be Quad amplified.

Matrix 800 - One time effort All Assault from B&W. Only a few hundred pairs made ever made. Four Factory isolated crossovers per speaker had upgraded components, 8 WBT connectors per speaker and Silver Wiring standard. Mine are Quad Wired. Can also be Quad amplified.

Matrix 800 - Think 4 Subs Two High Two Low for two channel music. B&W's All Out Assault Speaker when Two Channel was the focus.

Matrix 800 - Think 4 Subs Two High Two Low for two channel music. B&W's All Out Assault Speaker when Two Channel was the focus.

Matrix 800 Install

Matrix 800 Install

B&W Electrostatic Continental DM70... was John Bowers favorite speaker. compared to the 801? DM70 wear white cowboy hats.....801s wear black cowboy hats...

B&W Electrostatic Continental DM70... was John Bowers favorite speaker. compared to the 801? DM70 wear white cowboy hats.....801s wear black cowboy hats...

My Darth Vader Impression with Acoustat Spectra 33

My Darth Vader Impression with Acoustat Spectra 33

OTL versus Push Pull Amplifier Shootout

OTL versus Push Pull Amplifier Shootout

Dynavector Tonearm

Dynavector Tonearm

Why use a Bass Alignment Filter w/B&W 800 Series Matrix speakers as designed by John Bowers ? To actually hear the lowest octave in most rooms. See the graph for reasons why. Also and maybe more important it opens up Amp Choices. See Graph supplied by B&W UK. Note the ohm ratings on the right and how the BAF ensures a steady 6 ohms with 801.

Why use a Bass Alignment Filter w/B&W 800 Series Matrix speakers as designed by John Bowers ? To actually hear the lowest octave in most rooms. See the graph for reasons why. Also and maybe more important it opens up Amp Choices. See Graph supplied by B&W UK. Note the ohm ratings on the right and how the BAF ensures a steady 6 ohms with 801.

FR64s (former)

FR64s (former)

OTL 195 Amplifiers

OTL 195 Amplifiers

Room 2 Build out - pic from 2010 need to update - stairs view.Room now has 110 inch projection screen that hides when not in use.

Room 2 Build out - pic from 2010 need to update - stairs view.Room now has 110 inch projection screen that hides when not in use.

801 Monitors - The Bears (Replaced with Matrix 800) - 801 Stored for my Son - one day if he is ever ready.

801 Monitors - The Bears (Replaced with Matrix 800) - 801 Stored for my Son - one day if he is ever ready.

Former Modded VPI's - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSZSzxnN1mg

Former Modded VPI's - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSZSzxnN1mg

Jean Nantais Lenco Custom Two tonearm 100 lb

Jean Nantais Lenco Custom Two tonearm 100 lb

Turntable Thread Drive Comparisons - Fabricland became a favorite place.

Turntable Thread Drive Comparisons - Fabricland became a favorite place.

How to set ET2 weight properly for best Bass. Think childhood teeter totter.

How to set ET2 weight properly for best Bass. Think childhood teeter totter.

ET 2 Tonearm Manifold One Clean One Dirty - Guess which is which

ET 2 Tonearm Manifold One Clean One Dirty - Guess which is which

ET2 VTA Block destroyed by improper setup

ET2 VTA Block destroyed by improper setup

ET2 tonearm VTA Block Torquing Procedure

ET2 tonearm VTA Block Torquing Procedure

ET2 Aluminum versus Magnesium ArmTubes

ET2 Aluminum versus Magnesium ArmTubes

Regular ET2 Gooseneck versus Custom Aluminum

Regular ET2 Gooseneck versus Custom Aluminum

ET2 Single, Double, Triple I Beams

ET2 Single, Double, Triple I Beams

Armpod Experiment ET2 on a Pedestal - I wish my financial stocks were doing as good as the price of brass

Armpod Experiment ET2 on a Pedestal - I wish my financial stocks were doing as good as the price of brass

ET 2.0, 2.5 Tonearm Aluminum Mounting Plate (Available as of Dec 2015

ET 2.0, 2.5 Tonearm Aluminum Mounting Plate (Available as of Dec 2015

Pal and Running Buddy

Pal and Running Buddy

Circa 1994-2010 Room 1 - w 801 anchors

Circa 1994-2010 Room 1 - w 801 anchors

Timeter Aridyne 2000 - added as a backup. found one with only 100 hours on it.

Timeter Aridyne 2000 - added as a backup. found one with only 100 hours on it.

Matrix 800 - All Out Assault Effort when Two Channel was the Focus

Matrix 800 - All Out Assault Effort when Two Channel was the Focus

Relocated Subs - NEW TECH Meets OLD - WPK Quad 57 plus Dynaudio Acoustics BM12s combo - Quad 57's are seven feet from the front wall. Dynaudio Subs are set for 60 hz and down. Each sub has its own Class A/B 250 watt amplifier. Quads are run full out on the Music Reference RM10.

Relocated Subs - NEW TECH Meets OLD - WPK Quad 57 plus Dynaudio Acoustics BM12s combo - Quad 57's are seven feet from the front wall. Dynaudio Subs are set for 60 hz and down. Each sub has its own Class A/B 250 watt amplifier. Quads are run full out on the Music Reference RM10.

Katya our Savannah Cat - Should I worry about the ESL cloth grills ? Acoustat in space used for Exercise room.

Katya our Savannah Cat - Should I worry about the ESL cloth grills ? Acoustat in space used for Exercise room.

B&W DM70c Restore Revive of ESL Panel

B&W DM70c Restore Revive of ESL Panel

Yamaha 1968 Elephant Ear Speakers

Yamaha 1968 Elephant Ear Speakers

I am an ET'er

I am an ET'er

ET 2.5 Long I Bream

ET 2.5 Long I Bream

Description

Audio Hobby Thoughts, Philosophy & System Description 

Current Room Anchors - Room 1 and 2 active

Room 1 - Matrix 800's anchors -  for creating that ..........Maxell Tape Effect. 
Room 2 - (Adjacent to Room 1) - Quad 57 + two Dynaudio BM12s subs - Midrange reference
Room 3 - Acoustat Model 3 - Modded - upstairs - For imaging larger than life  (literally speaking) - see last picture. Unfortunately is next to my wifes TV room. So it gets limited use.
 
Stored - B&W Electrostatic DM70c Continental - Wife calls them the washing machines. John Bowers called them his favorite speaker.   Very interesting and very rare. Could anchor a room but they need special placement and lots of room. ESL portion needs to be 100% functional and at ear level or they will sound soft. 

Room 2 is mostly digital, guests, and used for trialing used unplayed records before they make the queue for room 1.  Room 1 has been called by my family as Dads Hole. I prefer panic room as it helped to raise my kids and stay married...so far. 

Psychology Part 

Music is critical to ones health and well being. I went through a couple stretches in life due to events without it and the results were not good. The goal for me to get lost in the music and have it transport me to that special place. Now whether you get there by a typical 2 channel home stereo with speakers, headphones, or other means is not important. Getting there is the important part.  

Audiophile not.....

Have always been the type that if I frequent a room enough, a system usually ends up in there. My wife finally put an end to this, and allows me to do what I want in the full basement of our house.....so..... In this described virtual system, I have had Room A since 1994. Adjacent Room B is in the process of being finished, but I have been using it for listening for a few years now adding in room treatments as needed.   

History 

Like many others, have been at this audio hobby since I was about 13 when I was consciously aware of the gear versus the actual music relationship. I am now 55 and currently with two adjacent music rooms setup with different gear. Both rooms can do full orchestra symphonies with large dynamic swings. Getting Room B with the Quad 57's to do this was a challenge; but I was able to get it to work with the right amps and powered subs. The Quads require a very different room acoustic setup over the Matrix 800's in Room A.  

I am a pure amateur, audiophile, music lover, past trombone player, and have never been part of the Audio Business as a manufacturer, dealer, distributor, or have any special interest relationships with any of these people. I consider myself a full time music lover, and part time audiophile; although I have friends that could argue this point. I have tried to upload pics and information here, that give a flavor of some of my audio journeys, and associated bouts of Audiophilia Nervosa.  :^)

"Audio Heaven, is for Music Lovers - Audiophiles are never happy.
With that, in the real, authentic, Heaven;  there is room, even for Audiophiles"  
8^0


Living in the country

Having moved away from the city core in the 90's, I have found that audiophiles away from the cities, are in general, scare to find and or keep to themselves. Many of my audio friends are now remote, due to the distance between us; so only virtual communications are possible most of the time. 

The negative aspects of Isolation aside;  one good aspect of living in the country is the clean power and lack of noise and vibrations caused by traffic, trucks, etc...Once experienced and its effect on your listening, you become very aware of the multitude of audiophile products available as band aids, to cover, veil, but never eliminate these artifacts in densely populated areas. 

Thanks for reading and please say Hi.  

Happy Listening  


Read more...

Room Details

Dimensions: 24’ × 20’  Large
Ceiling: 8’

Components Toggle details

    • My Music Library Records, Tape, Cd's, Files.
    I was born in the 60's so I grew up with Classic Rock, Beatles, etc... But I love all music, new music and Opera hits home with me. I played trombone in Jr and High school so the Bass Clef has a bias with me.  Listen more now to the ladies crooning at me, Classical and Jazz with occasional Classical Rock; I think a well recorded full Orchestra Symphony with huge Dynamic swings has the most magic for me.
    • ***** MAIN ROOM aka Panic Room, Dad's Hole, ....*****
    I have had Room A since 1994. It has 3 dedicated lines 20, 20 , 15. This room is personal use. Room B is more for entertaining and spending time with friends. 

    Room A is much better insulated and isolated from my wife. As much as I would like to move the Matrix 800's to the larger Room B space to try them, it would probably just get me that much more trouble.  

    Room A and B are both located on a concrete poured floor. A has a an underpad and flat carpet on top. Spikes from gear stands and speakers are able to penetrate to the concrete with no problem ensuring a solid mechanical connection. The speakers are located 6 feet from the front wall with the room being 24 ft in length. Putting in the 800's over the 801's meant that some of the room treatments were able to be removed due to the 800's double woofers high and low.  This is also one of the reasons I call them very room friendly.
    • RTR - Studer Tape Deck - For Listening & Vinyl Tuning
    RTR - Studer - used to play 15 IPS Tapes. 
     
    1/4 inch 2 track machine. The three pictures attached. Top Left - known as two turntables. my machine being worked on Middle pic - 807 Top Right Pic. A picture of Roger Ginsley with a 48 track machine he is about to split into two 24 tracks. My Studer 807 is calibrated by him. He is also the one that makes the interconnects I use with it.
    • JC Verdier La Platine Vintage Granito Original Design
    2012 

    http://www.jcverdier.com/ADSL/platineVintage.html 

    Just a delight to use. With its presentation, sends the message home that it is all amount the music. Effortless, seamless, but experience is needed is setting up the thread. A real Goldilocks scenario of the thread being too loose, too tight or just right.  Different thread tensions alternate how the motor and platter work together and change the speed. The objective is to get the correct speed with as little effect from the motor. ....  
     
    Original design. Granito Model My version uses a motor only equipped for thread Granito base and solid aluminum billet armpod. The later newer motors are equipped now for belts too - but no one runs them this way that I know of. This decision was made imo to generate more sales as it is easier to setup. But imo the belt grip would play havoc with the motor / magnets marriage which was designed for thread. I would think that belt stretch and its physical changes with temp and humidity changes would also cause problems, and interfere with the natural braking action of the magnets. This is my opinion as mine is thread only. There is a greater learning curve involved with thread. 

    This is the only turntable I am aware of whose platter design includes both acceleration (inertia) and braking (natural forces from same pole magnets) to deal with the records behavior - going from soft to heavily modulated grooves. The motor design, like a marriage with the platter. Think of the childhood merry go rounds that once up to speed - even a little girl could keep them going. To understand how the motor and platter are like a marriage, one need only turn the motor off and the platter spins for 30 seconds with the thread attached. However cut the thread while the platter is turning, and the platter stops much quicker as the two magnets demonstrate their braking capability. Impressive to me is just the plain simplicity of design using physics to get the job done with a piece of string and magnets. I found it important in setup to have the thread positioned in a way that is the least intrusive on the platter; so as to allow the platter to not only do its job as designed; but to also provide the needed jolts as required from the motor to maintain speed stability. 

     In my opinion - you will know when you have set it up properly because you are able to turn the motor off and on and also deflect the thread with your finger - as the records plays - and not affect the music delivery to your ears. I base this when compared directly to 15 IPS Master Tape dubs. In testing for accuracy I run both simultaneously with one lagging 10 seconds behind the other and switch between the two - compensating for gain as tape is a high level signal. When the thread is setup in this fashion there is minimal stress put on it. The current silk thread I am using has recently passed the one year mark. Overall Big Sound from a small piece of thread. 

    Some facts Magnetic bearing design. Brass colored rings are big shielded permanent magnets; same magnet poles repelling each other. The result is "levitation" the space you see between them. No thrust bearing involved. A central spindle bathed in a special oil keeps them aligned. For me personally I did not know what TT bearing noise sounded like until I heard music on a TT without a physical bearing. The plinth is made of Granito. Granito is not real granite but a non-resonant material that looks and feels like granite. A limited edition model.

     "Granito is a material composed by little pieces of marble of very different origin agglomerated inside a mold with cement. Machined and polished. The resonance of the plinth with its suspension is about 5Hz and it is well absorbed by the air cavities." 

    Mr. JC Verdier Note: Newer Platines are provided with a setup bearing. The manual is very clear on the setup bearing. It is just that - a setup tool only. COUNTERFEIT PLATINES Unfortunately there are non-authentic tables out there worldwide from 20 different counterfeiting makers. These tables are out there with people using them. If anyone is unaware of this, see the Platine Information on the JC Verdier website for more info.

    http://www.jcverdier.com/ADSL/platineV.html]Platine 

    The only advice I can give is when buying a Verdier Platine you should be careful to ensure it is a real Platine, especially if buying privately. If you already have one and have doubts, check with an authorized dealer or J.C. Verdier company in France to ensure it is authentic.  
    • Custom Eminent Technology Model 2.5 for MC Carts
    This is a custom build ET 2.5 Tonearm from Bruce Thigpen - A 19 PSI design.I am using the new Long I Beam. Weights are reduced by half and therefore the vertical inertia is higher - a goal of the design. The Aluminum Gooseneck was sourced from NZ. It was through Richard Krebs also an ET2 owner.  I am using Single Shot WBT wiring, Aluminum mount plate. Magnesium armtube. Double Leaf Spring and damping trough. If you are an ET2 owner you know what I am talking about :^).... Advantages of the ET2 airbearing linear tracker tonearm - no VTF changes with VTA adjustment, no offset setup, antiskating and immunity to acoustic feedback, as it rides on film of air. 

    https://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1325551242&&&/Eminent-Technology-ET-2-Tonearm-Owners

    One shot wire. Run at 19 PSI. Damping trough with 1 cc of Oil. Lead weights at the very end of the I Beam.

    VTA on the fly while the record plays and it doesn't change any parameters (VTF) like all other tonearms do. This is due to a patented VTA on the fly system. Have you ever noticed how with same thickness records....some can sound brighter, some bloated and some just right? When they press the records the different plants can have different standards. Records are then cut with varying angles.. even same thickness ones.

    See ET2 Bass Management Below
    • Tonearm Wiring Loom - One shot WBT NextGen
    2011 One shot wiring loom for the ET 2.5. WBT 0102 CU connectors. The design of the ET2 (2.5) allows for this wiring to be changed out in about 10 minutes. Silver and copper can be experimented with.
    • The PUMP ET2
    Life Support for the ET2's.
    Timeter 3000 Medical Industrial Pump. The most important part of the ET2 arms setup. Industrial commercial grade medical pump. Its actually a patient respirator.

    These have an hours counter and come up for sale cheaply on ebay. If you have space in your basement somewhere they are turnkey once set up.

    I have tried large aquarium pumps, smaller medical pumps, compressors.

    This Timeter Medical 50 psi pump has been customized to allow me to regulate air pressure coming out and send 19 psi to the ET2 tonearms. Another regulator with gauge at the arm allows me to accurately adjust for the PSI coming into the arm. Located in another room -cannot be heard in sound room when running.


    The smoothness of air delivery is excellent. No resonance. The pump dumps/expels moisture like a car's AC. Have never seen a drop in the moisture collector; other than one incident when the pump outlet clogged with minerals from the moisture. I now soak the pump outlet in CLR for 2 hours every two months.

    • ET2 In Room Air Regulator & Filter
    2nd Regulator and Filter on wall near the ET arm. Confirms and controls the 19 psi and also filters out moisture in line. Have never seen any moisture in this filter. This device lets me change the pressure going to the arm by just turning the top mounted knob. This regulator is mobile. It can be placed in my lap while the music is playing and pressure adjusted to hear how it affects the music delivery.
    • Audio Research DAC8
    From a DAC only function perspective identical to the ARC REF DAC except the output stage is tubed on the REF. Interesting read.  :^)

     http://www.audioresearch.com/ContentsFiles/DAC8_white_paper.pdf

     
    • Audio Research SP11 - MKII Pre Amp Modded
    Owned many many years. Modded power supply box. Variable Gain for dealing with hot, and compressed source material - Digital and Analog. On the fly cartridge impedance loading. Used in ARC's hotrod mode. Direct output and bypass switch engaged. Amperex Bugle Boys.
    • Matrix 800
    Unique one time all assault effort from B&W at a time when 2 channel was the focus. Smooth, musical yet still detailed. Room Friendly if you can believe it. Imagine 4 subs two high and two low pointed at you for 2 channel music. Each driver 2 woofer, mids, tweeter have their own crossover easily accessible from the back. 
    They were a  2 1/2 year study from Bowers & Wilkins under John Bowers (RIP). I have looked for a long time for a pair. The only time they become available are through owners going to a smaller condo (retiring or divorce).

    All B&W 800 models that followed the Matrix series are the same only in model designation - 800. They are not a replacement or upgrade. They are a different build, design, objectives, sound. Post Matrix 800's are a smaller speaker system (require a sub for full range); they do have better WAF (more easily placed into a shared room with the wife)

    800 matrix can be played at low and high levels with the right amp.
    93db 2.83 volts/1m, Mine are Quad wired. They can be run on four separate amps if one desires as each driver has its own crossover. 

    Top and bottom woofers each excite a different set of waves. These waves cancel each other out. Thats the theory. My listening supports this. Smooth tight bass. It is quite something to experience since their size make you think they will over take the room. Also IMO each woofer works only half as much with four versus two for the desired SPL.  All of this results in a very flexible listening position. All drivers are physically isolated with separate crossovers and Van Den Hul silver wiring from the factory. I run them with both tubes and Solid State. Krell and  the modded Music Reference RM9.  

    Krell Amplifier Story
    My research found me talking with Dan D'Agostino who used matrix 800's as his reference speakers when he designed this era of Krell amps.
    Specifically the FPB series like my FPB600. On a dedicated 20 amp circuit with upgraded 20 amp power cord using Furutech Gold IEC.

    600 wpc - 8 ohms,
    1200 wpc 4 ohms,
    2400 wpc 2 ohms.

    The speakers are a 4 ohms design due to the double woofers.
    New spiders in all the four woofers.
    • KRELL FPB600 & KRELL Bass Alignment Filters
    Krell / 800 Matrix Interface. KRELL FPB600 KRELL 800 Matrix BAF Furutech IEC. 

     20 amp power cord. 
     20 amp wall service. 
     http://hansvt.home.xs4all.nl/pdf/brochures/baf.pdf
    • ROGER MODJESKI Music Reference RM9 MODDED
    I have two of his amps. RM10 used with QUAD 57's

    RM9 Push Pull Tube Amp.
    Used to power Acoustat, 801, 800 speakers.
    WBT 0700 Connectors.
    KT88 output tubes.
    Hardwired for 4 ohm tap. Total Overhaul done April 2015
    • MATRIX 800 INSTALL
    Installation
    • 800 Series Bass Alignment Filter / Equalizer.

    The graph shows the 801 matrix frequency response with and without the filter.

    All 800 series B&W matrix speakers are an active design and are intended to be used with an equalizer by the designer (John Bowers) to achieve the best frequency response.
    This attached graph was sent to me by B&W Europe years ago 

    It is the frequency plot for the 801 matrix "without" using the supplied Bass Alignment Filter. (not sure if it is 801 s2 or s3)
    B&W England are the ones that drew the two dotted lines on the graph. 

    The 801 matrix speakers were designed to be used with the BAF. The speakers with BAF devices were shipped to original owners. But these devices became lost as speakers changed hands. They pop up on their own on ebay.  

    The two interesting parts.  

    Part 1 

    Not only does adding the BAF filter as designed give you a smoother response and allow the speaker to hit 20 hz.  The BAF makes the 801 matrix speaker much more efficient. The ohm ratings can be seen on the right 8 - 6 - 4 - 2 ohms. The 801 matrix s2 and s3 are a very easy 6 ohm steady load with the active equalization provided by the BAF. This opens up amp choices.    

    Part 2 

    Audiophile opinions on the BAF device are kind of split. Not sure if its an even 50% like it, 50% don't like it, but you have the two camps. Why the difference? The room; its acoustic properties, and how the 801 (aka relationship destroyer) deals with it. There is a reason B&W no longer make the 801.  You need a dedicated room. Its makes no business sense. 

    801 matrix owners today (there are many out there and some reading here), that could NOT make the BAF work with the speaker; or who never used it, or even heard of the BAF before;  are taxing their amps way more to make bass with the 801.  
    • ************ SECOND ROOM ***********************
    A backwards seven with the main section 20 -23. This room is the "top of the Seven". It is separated from the bottom portion of the Number 7 shape (12 x 24) by a heavy curtain. It is also adjacent to my other room of which the door is left open. The back of the room has the stairs that go upstairs. One of the pictures has me standing on the stairs. All this makes for a much bigger room as far as sound volume and space is concerned. An in progress dedicated listening space that accommodates different speaker types.
    • ******************SPEAKERS ***********************************
    03/31/2011 Dynamic, ESL, Planar IMO - We listen to our rooms. The speakers in the rooms are like boats. They both represent freedom to me. A 12 foot aluminum boat is perfect for a small lake and your favourite person. But out on the ocean or a big body of water … The water/boat analogy in this case is like your room and speakers. Water waves versus sound waves. There is no perfect boat and no perfect speaker. This is because all our rooms are different and the room is the big rock in this audiophile game. Speakers represent the last piece in the audio chain. Their sound represents everything in your audio chain especially the room, before it reaches your ears. Every piece will have an effect on what is heard. This IMO is why it is so important to have a good source. The last few years my speakers have remained intact and I have concentrated on improving the source components. Each time I improved the source my main speakers improved as well. This tells me they are not a bottleneck and I have not yet reached their limits.
    • Dynaudio Acoustics BM12s - Two of these in my Quad Room B .
    Two of these in Room B -  18hz - 60 hz. 
    4th order Linkwitz- Riley crossovers have a really steep slope past 60 hz.
    On paper this made them look like a really good match for the Quad 57's; but how does such a small box make 18 hz.  They have class a/b amps are 4 ohms. 
    I brought them home and demoed them. Very Punchy, Clean and they go really low. A great match with the raised Wayne Picquet Quad 57's. They are placed under the speakers - see pic in my virtual system. 
    • Quad 57 Wayne Picquet rebuild with Music Reference RM10 AMP
    Quad ESL-57 - Wayne Picquet Panels Partnered with the amp that was designed for them - Music Reference RM10 by Roger Modjeski.

    With certain music magic for me.

    8/20/2012 These Quad 57 speakers were designed and put out before I was born. The parts inside which I have replaced like the EHT modules were stamped 1971. Fourteen years after they originally came out. The panels themselves are only a few years old. They were rebuilt by Wayne Piquet in Florida.
    The normal music presentation for stock Quad 57’s is as if listening to music from the first row of a balcony. If using stock feet a 2 or 4 x 4 piece of wood or brick under the rear leg angling the speaker downwards toward you actually raises this image. This may be a more realistic presentation in your room.

    Check out my review. http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?rspkr&1309018315&&&/Quad-57-
    • 801 Active Monitors - Currently Stored
    Currently Stored - "Winnie the Pooh" of speakers. Relationship Destroyer. Owned since 1994. Serious Sound Pressure Speaker can re-create an event in your room when positioned and driven properly. Mothers milk bass. During my time with them have used Solid State and Tube amps (Push Pull and OTL's).  In comparison to the DM70 Electrostatic, If the 801 and DM70 were cowboys. The 801s are wearing black hats and the DM70 white ones.  

    801 Matrix S2 and S3 - Designed by John Bowers to be Active Monitors with use of the BAF and become a sixth-order Butterworth alignment. Without the high pass filter they are a vented fourth-order design, specifically in a Bessel alignment. "Fourth-order" is an engineering term that refers to all vented and passive-radiator speakers; sealed boxes are "second order."  

    They are not full range to 20 hz without the BAF. 

    http://kenrockwell.com/audio/b-w/800-series-bass-alignment-filter.htm 

    ***************************************************************************** 

    From Stereophile (re: S2) "Higher in frequency, the response trend (averaged across a 30 degrees lateral window on the tweeter axis) is basically flat, but with a slight excess of energy in the presence region and a corresponding lack of energy in the top octave. All things being equal, this will make the speaker both a little too revealing of recorded detail and somewhat fussy when it comes to the quality of source and amplification components, just as LL noted in his auditioning comments." 

    *******************************************************************************

    801 S2 versus S3. 
    Some of the changes. S3 used a different crossover than s2 - less component count. Better isolated mid and hf boards. Bass inductors with an iron dust core . Rotating midrange – tweeter head assembly was permanently connected. (from 3 to 4 pin delivering separate ground signals to midrange and tweeter) Magnetic fluid cooling of the tweeter (like the 800 matrix) - the reason the apoc protection eliminated (circuits needed for this were also removed) 


    ******************************************************************************* 

     In nearfield very revealing of room setup, system components - SS and Tube, cabling, TT drive systems, poorly recorded music. They reveal all the flaws of the recording. 

    Depending on your audio hobby objectives this can be a good thing or a bad thing...

    See picture of the Bass Alignment Filter. 
    • B&W Electrostatic DM70 John Bowers / JansZen Hybrid
    B&W DM70 Electrostatic Continental Hybrid Speaker Clockwork Orange Movie The late John Bowers (RIP) favorite speakers. JansZen ESL - 500hz and up. B&W Woofer - 500hz and down. Require a large room - elevated to ear level and a good distance from the front wall. Very refined midrange - muscular bass. Non-directional with a large sweetspot.

    n]Designed in 1970. No cost or time constraints during the development. From what I can make out they were discontinued due to costs involved.
    Version One - Power handling 25 watts at all frequencies.
    Version Two - The later DM70 Improved, which looked identical, is suitable for amplifiers of 25-100w, but seems otherwise identical.

    500hz crossover - ESL panel can not be overdriven and is nondirectional.

    ESL Panel was provided by JansZen.
    Sensitivity is 17 watts into nominal impedance required to produce a sound level of 95 dB. at one metre at 400 Hz
    Double fuse protection C and CA versions.


    Restored and refurbished. Silver wiring inside

    http://loudspeaker-repair-service.reromanus.net/B+W-Manual_1970.pdf

    http://reromanus.net/loudspeaker-repair-service/refurbish_DM70.htm

    http://www.mats-enterprise.co.uk/DM70page/index.htm
    • Modded Acoustat Model 3 - Used In Shared Space Upstairs
    Finally hooked up the Model 3's to the OTL's in a temporary fashion.


    These are in our living area shared space
    Custom modded Model 3;s.
    They have rebuilt interfaces.
    Unique granite bases with integrated spikes that weigh 80 lbs.
    Burl Oak Veneer facing and the inside is filled with small sand bags.
    • Technics SP10 MKII with 2nd ET2 High Pressure Manifold
    March 11, 2013 Update


    Next version ? will replace the current black base plinth with a more aesthetic one.

    Pet Project - Has taught me a lot about resonances and vibrations.
    SP10MKII Version Five
    Solid Stainless Steel Legs have threads at both ends and are bolted into the sp10 top plate as well as the solid plinth/platform. The armpod is bolted into the plinth. The plinth is then isolated by the AT-616 Pneumatic footers.
    19 lb Solid Brass Pod
    1 inch Diameter Solid Stainless Steel.

    Previously I had the SP10 MKII in a heavy 7 layer plinth. Birch ply + one mdf layer. This SP10MKII came from a private studio.



    This is the second ET2 I own and it is a high pressure manifold

    Detailed tips and observations here.



    http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1325551242&&&/Eminent-Technology-ET-2-Tonearm-Owners
    • Jean Nantais 100 LB Two Tonearm Custom Lenco
    Jean Nantais Custom turntable.
    Includes:
    100 Pounds - Veneered - Two Tonearm Plinth
    Lenco L75 motor and top plate rebuilt to his standards.
    Reference model spindle, bearing thrust plate.
    Bonded Metacrylate mat
    Bearpaw footers.
    IEC outlet.
    • ************ SOME NOTABLE MEMORIES **************************
    For me some notable equipment. Currently stored or sold-indicated as such.
    • McAlister OTL 195
    OTL195 There is a review contained in my system thread. In comparisons to good Solid State Class A and Push Pull amps they were like driving a 911 but you are limited to 1st gear when pushed. Very fast and punchy. But lack the bass that push pull deliver on. Get the bass right and everything else comes into place. These amps are designed around the needs of Acoustats. My Acoustats are in the shared room upstairs. I no longer own the OTL's.
    • Fidelity Research FR64s
    Gimbal Pivot Arm. I found excellent build quality and a nicely implemented antiskate system. I also found a low frequency resonance that accentuated the bass. A warmer sounding tonearm. It was in my second room with the second ET2 not the ET 2.5. Whenever I started a session with the FR64s it was always nice. But curiosity would always prevail and I would switch over to the ET2. It would always remain there. This happened more times than I can remember. I am not a tonearm collector so it was sold to raise funds for another project. I am in agreement with what Cartridge designer Johnathan Carr had to say about it. http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1243274438&openusid&zzJcarr&4&5#Jcarr
    • Modded VPI's
    Thread driven TNT and a JMW 12 using rollerblock jrs. SOLD
    • Acoustat Spectra 33
    Acoustat Spectra 33
    • Eminent Technology LFT 8a
    Set up in midfield - soundstage at both sides of the room. So the speaker shown is the left or the right one depending on side of room you are on. Excellent Magnetic Planar Hybrid Woofer Speaker. Very natural sounding but difficult to drive.
    • ****************AUDIOPHILE FUN + ET 2 TONEARM MODS ************** ****
    From here down are some inserts from past audiophile fun. 
    Also contained here is important information on the ET2, 2.5  tonearms as well as some of the mods I have done to them. If any questions on any of them let me know. No Holds Barred tonearm. User needs to be mechanically inclined and be willing to read ET2 manual instructions for proper setup of this tonearm. If bought on the used market a friend that is familiar with the tonearm for proper inspection of condition is important. 
     Audiogon ET2 thread 

     http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1325551242&&&/Eminent-Technology-ET-2-Tonearm-
    • COMPARING TURNTABLES (Jan 2010)
    Goldilocks and the Three Turntables . See Sept 20, 2019 post comment below on my virtual system for findings / details. 

    Belt Drive (converted to thread) VPI TNT Idler - Jean Nantais Custom 100 Lb Direct Drive - SP10MKII When compared in the same room(nearfield), with same gear, tonearm and cartridge, same time, differences are revealed. Out into rooms on their own, this is not as noticeable as our ears deal with different room acoustics. ymmv
    • OTL VERSUS PUSH PULL Tube Amps
    In room comparison.
    • Thread Drive Comparisons
    2010 testing out different threads. Fabricland became a favorite place of mine.
    • ET 2 Tonearm Proper Bass Management - ATB
    According to Bruce
    My ears agree
    • ET 2.0 Manifold Before and After Cleaning
    Pictures courtesty of a friend.
    • ET2 VTA Block Destroyed
    Thigpen Genius showing VTA Block rack of teeth and worm gear. This one was abused. If you are buying a used one ensure the rack of teeth seen in the pic are uniform with no wear and baldspots. This is an indicator that the VTA block was misused and rigidly tightened stripping the teeth. The bolt was tightened to a point that shattered the CF.
    • ET 2.0 2.5 Tonearm VTA Block Torquing Procedure
    VTA Block - Ensure each of the four bolts is torqued equally or the patented VTA system will be off. This procedures takes just minutes and should be done off table or you will throw your alignment off. Once bolts are torqued the manifold housing can be mounted to the pillar post and the rest of the setup completed.
    • ET 2.0, 2.5 Tonearm Magnesium versus Aluminum Armtubes
    Mag - MC Cartridges Aluminum - MM Catridges The middle ground is the Carbon Fibre arm tube. MM and MC.
    • ET 2.0, 2.5 Custom Aluminum Joint - aka GOOSENECK
    Black one is the stock one. Sourced from Richard Krebs
    • ET Tonearm Counterweight Bolt Mod
    Get a longer counterweight bolt especially if you like to use heavier cartridges. The stock ET2 bolt is on the right. The longer bolt weighs a bit more, holds more lead weights and allows you to use less lead further out on the I Beam. This provides for the highest vertical mass which is really important with the ET2 as it has medium to high horizontal mass. a 4 - 1 horizontal to vertical ratio. In my system higher vertical mass means cleaner, less resonant, overall better bass.
    The brass rings are meant for balancing only. I prefer to use Blue Tack for this purpose.
    • Et2 Leaf Spring Mods Single, Double, Triple
    General Cartridge Guideline 
     Single Leaf Spring - High compliance 
     Double - Medium Compliance 
     Triple - Low compliance
    • ET2 Pedestal Custom 3
    Solid Brass Arm Pod
    • Koaltar Tweak
    my pal 6 months, 79 lbs.
    • Kitty Tweak Bengal
    a real sweetheart
    • RCA Victor Dog
    I introduce Lucky. He is a mixed breed Jack Russell/Chihuahua mix breed. He will be acting as the Victor RCA dog, 

    The original Victor RCA dog.  
    He was named Nipper and was born in 1884 in Bristol, England, and died in September 1895. He was a mixed-breed dog and probably part Jack Russell Terrier, although some sources suggest that he was a Smooth Fox Terrier, or "part Bull Terrier". He was named Nipper because he would bite the backs of visitors' legs.

Comments 673

Sign in to comment
Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support --------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support

ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support --------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support

ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support --------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support

ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support --------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support

ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support --------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support

ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Owner
Bdp - did you see my previous post ?

Re: Room B - Quad 57 - Music Reference RM10 + Sub.

The arrows in the picture point to all the spots where sub/s have gone in the past.
I was hoping for some fun & guesses on which spot you guys thought worked best.
Well its location 12. Nearfield. Spot 11 works ok too. But above on the main floor close to spot 11 is my wife's couch for watching TV.
This is not good. Trust me on this one.

Bdp24 Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik?
I emailed Rhythmik with my requirements including the same picture with the arrows.
It lead to some back and forth dialogue.


**********************************************

Chris,

We have a lot of customers with Quad 57’s and Magnepan speakers as well. Our sealed subwoofer are good match for planar speakers in general. Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job. If your room is less than 3500 cu ft than a pair of F12s would be OK. If your room is bigger then a pair of E15HPs or F15HPs will be the way to go.

Best Regards,
Rythmik Audio - Tech Support --------------------------------------------------

"ME"
thanks for your reply.

"Depending on the size of your room, a pair of F12 or pair of F15HPs would do the job."

22 ft wide - 18 deep but a room behind where I am standing is another 13 x 24 if door left open. 8 ft ceilings.
In using one large sub as an experiment the red arrow represents the best placement with 57's.
How would your subs factor in. Based on your experience which arrows would represent good placement ?
Is this enough info to give me an opinion.

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:46:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Quad 57 - wayne picquet rebuilds

Chris,

In a room that size you have to go with a pair of F15HPs. About the placement, it’s really hard to say what’s the best place to put the subwoofers because every room is different. You have to try different locations, take measurement or do a subwoofer crawl until you find the best location for the subwoofer(s). Usually front wall close to a corner helps with extension and output but it’s not the rule all the time or for every room.

Rythmik Audio – Tech Support

ME -

for a two channel only Audio room, have you ever used a near field placement beside / behind the listening couch ? Chris

Chris,

I have my pair of F12SEs near field, one on each side of my couch. Of course, my room is only 2700 cu ft.

Best Regards,

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support
ME

interesting thanks.

Would you agree then for two channel - if you want the best bass at the listening couch that the best placement is nearfield?
This allows for the lowest volume setting on the sub. The sub is never stressed.
Chris


Chris,

Like I said before placement is different for every room. In my room near field is better and also I don’t have many placement options. You have to try different locations until you find the most appropriated for your room. But usually near field placement works in most rooms.

Rythmik Audio - Tech Support*****************************************************

That's how the discussion went.
fwiw - Just One F15HP that Rhythmic mentions in the email trail starts at $1200 us.(from website)


Bdp24 - The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. Bdp

I have tried a conventional stereo pair of subs (borrowed) in line / close to the Quad 57's in room B.

My observations

1) The Quad 57 bass is too fast for them.
2) Inline or close to the Quads also forces you to use higher setting on the subs, which ends up clouding the Quad midrange.

Right now

In Room B - Quad 57's with the Music Reference RM10 and that one conventional sub in nearfield at position 12.
The previous compression of sound that I talked about on this thread in Room B with the quads has been fixed.
I am able to achieve 100 db peaks if I want. I listen around 80-85 db plus peaks. The room is filled with sound due to the positioning of the quads.
So thinking of bringing in a pair and using both in nearfield.

Bdp24 - Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings
I have many tools, and as a cottage owner I do a lot of DIY carpentry. My problem as confirmed by my wife. I am good at making stuff to about 90% completion. Meaning it will work and not fall down. But I am terrible at finishing touches. I usually get on with the next project on the list. I still have not put in the base mouldings for my Room B yet.

So...

Prefer a plug and play approach - finished product - and we unfortunately absolutely need to consider today the 30 point difference in our dollars :^(

ct0517

Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik? Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings, but all the discussion of the sub takes place on the GR Research AudioCircle Forum. Danny is much more into them than Brian, and the GR customers are audiophiles while Rythmik's customers are more home theater guys, as are most sub owners, I take it.

The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. By the way, the 180Hz x/o frequency of the ET LFT-8b (from the panels to the sealed 8" woofer) makes the GR OB Sub a perfect replacement for the good-but-not-great woofer in the ET speaker. As with all Dipoles, there is a null at both sides of each sub, where the output from the front-firing and rear-firing woofers meet and cancel. So wherever in the room you place them, they need to face the listening position. Right next to the loudspeakers is a good starting location, but the controls on the Rythmik plate amp (rotary knob for phase 0 to 180 degrees, x/o frequency, damping, volume, etc) makes blending the sub with the speaker possible wherever it is located.

Danny Richie designed an Open baffle loudspeaker he named the Super-V, and it contains the OB/Dipole sub (with a 15" OB co-ax driver for midrange and highs). An owner of a pair of the Super-V just listed it on Audiogon, so you can look at it to get an idea of the look of the sub. The owner posted only one pic, and it's not a very good one. Maybe he'll send you some if you email him.

bdp24

Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik? Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings, but all the discussion of the sub takes place on the GR Research AudioCircle Forum. Danny is much more into them than Brian, and the GR customers are audiophiles while Rythmik's customers are more home theater guys, as are most sub owners, I take it.

The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. By the way, the 180Hz x/o frequency of the ET LFT-8b (from the panels to the sealed 8" woofer) makes the GR OB Sub a perfect replacement for the good-but-not-great woofer in the ET speaker. As with all Dipoles, there is a null at both sides of each sub, where the output from the front-firing and rear-firing woofers meet and cancel. So wherever in the room you place them, they need to face the listening position. Right next to the loudspeakers is a good starting location, but the controls on the Rythmik plate amp (rotary knob for phase 0 to 180 degrees, x/o frequency, damping, volume, etc) makes blending the sub with the speaker possible wherever it is located.

Danny Richie designed an Open baffle loudspeaker he named the Super-V, and it contains the OB/Dipole sub (with a 15" OB co-ax driver for midrange and highs). An owner of a pair of the Super-V just listed it on Audiogon, so you can look at it to get an idea of the look of the sub. The owner posted only one pic, and it's not a very good one. Maybe he'll send you some if you email him.

bdp24

Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik? Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings, but all the discussion of the sub takes place on the GR Research AudioCircle Forum. Danny is much more into them than Brian, and the GR customers are audiophiles while Rythmik's customers are more home theater guys, as are most sub owners, I take it.

The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. By the way, the 180Hz x/o frequency of the ET LFT-8b (from the panels to the sealed 8" woofer) makes the GR OB Sub a perfect replacement for the good-but-not-great woofer in the ET speaker. As with all Dipoles, there is a null at both sides of each sub, where the output from the front-firing and rear-firing woofers meet and cancel. So wherever in the room you place them, they need to face the listening position. Right next to the loudspeakers is a good starting location, but the controls on the Rythmik plate amp (rotary knob for phase 0 to 180 degrees, x/o frequency, damping, volume, etc) makes blending the sub with the speaker possible wherever it is located.

Danny Richie designed an Open baffle loudspeaker he named the Super-V, and it contains the OB/Dipole sub (with a 15" OB co-ax driver for midrange and highs). An owner of a pair of the Super-V just listed it on Audiogon, so you can look at it to get an idea of the look of the sub. The owner posted only one pic, and it's not a very good one. Maybe he'll send you some if you email him.

bdp24

Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik? Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings, but all the discussion of the sub takes place on the GR Research AudioCircle Forum. Danny is much more into them than Brian, and the GR customers are audiophiles while Rythmik's customers are more home theater guys, as are most sub owners, I take it.

The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. By the way, the 180Hz x/o frequency of the ET LFT-8b (from the panels to the sealed 8" woofer) makes the GR OB Sub a perfect replacement for the good-but-not-great woofer in the ET speaker. As with all Dipoles, there is a null at both sides of each sub, where the output from the front-firing and rear-firing woofers meet and cancel. So wherever in the room you place them, they need to face the listening position. Right next to the loudspeakers is a good starting location, but the controls on the Rythmik plate amp (rotary knob for phase 0 to 180 degrees, x/o frequency, damping, volume, etc) makes blending the sub with the speaker possible wherever it is located.

Danny Richie designed an Open baffle loudspeaker he named the Super-V, and it contains the OB/Dipole sub (with a 15" OB co-ax driver for midrange and highs). An owner of a pair of the Super-V just listed it on Audiogon, so you can look at it to get an idea of the look of the sub. The owner posted only one pic, and it's not a very good one. Maybe he'll send you some if you email him.

bdp24

Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik? Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings, but all the discussion of the sub takes place on the GR Research AudioCircle Forum. Danny is much more into them than Brian, and the GR customers are audiophiles while Rythmik's customers are more home theater guys, as are most sub owners, I take it.

The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. By the way, the 180Hz x/o frequency of the ET LFT-8b (from the panels to the sealed 8" woofer) makes the GR OB Sub a perfect replacement for the good-but-not-great woofer in the ET speaker. As with all Dipoles, there is a null at both sides of each sub, where the output from the front-firing and rear-firing woofers meet and cancel. So wherever in the room you place them, they need to face the listening position. Right next to the loudspeakers is a good starting location, but the controls on the Rythmik plate amp (rotary knob for phase 0 to 180 degrees, x/o frequency, damping, volume, etc) makes blending the sub with the speaker possible wherever it is located.

Danny Richie designed an Open baffle loudspeaker he named the Super-V, and it contains the OB/Dipole sub (with a 15" OB co-ax driver for midrange and highs). An owner of a pair of the Super-V just listed it on Audiogon, so you can look at it to get an idea of the look of the sub. The owner posted only one pic, and it's not a very good one. Maybe he'll send you some if you email him.

bdp24

Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik? Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings, but all the discussion of the sub takes place on the GR Research AudioCircle Forum. Danny is much more into them than Brian, and the GR customers are audiophiles while Rythmik's customers are more home theater guys, as are most sub owners, I take it.

The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. By the way, the 180Hz x/o frequency of the ET LFT-8b (from the panels to the sealed 8" woofer) makes the GR OB Sub a perfect replacement for the good-but-not-great woofer in the ET speaker. As with all Dipoles, there is a null at both sides of each sub, where the output from the front-firing and rear-firing woofers meet and cancel. So wherever in the room you place them, they need to face the listening position. Right next to the loudspeakers is a good starting location, but the controls on the Rythmik plate amp (rotary knob for phase 0 to 180 degrees, x/o frequency, damping, volume, etc) makes blending the sub with the speaker possible wherever it is located.

Danny Richie designed an Open baffle loudspeaker he named the Super-V, and it contains the OB/Dipole sub (with a 15" OB co-ax driver for midrange and highs). An owner of a pair of the Super-V just listed it on Audiogon, so you can look at it to get an idea of the look of the sub. The owner posted only one pic, and it's not a very good one. Maybe he'll send you some if you email him.

bdp24

Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik? Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings, but all the discussion of the sub takes place on the GR Research AudioCircle Forum. Danny is much more into them than Brian, and the GR customers are audiophiles while Rythmik's customers are more home theater guys, as are most sub owners, I take it.

The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. By the way, the 180Hz x/o frequency of the ET LFT-8b (from the panels to the sealed 8" woofer) makes the GR OB Sub a perfect replacement for the good-but-not-great woofer in the ET speaker. As with all Dipoles, there is a null at both sides of each sub, where the output from the front-firing and rear-firing woofers meet and cancel. So wherever in the room you place them, they need to face the listening position. Right next to the loudspeakers is a good starting location, but the controls on the Rythmik plate amp (rotary knob for phase 0 to 180 degrees, x/o frequency, damping, volume, etc) makes blending the sub with the speaker possible wherever it is located.

Danny Richie designed an Open baffle loudspeaker he named the Super-V, and it contains the OB/Dipole sub (with a 15" OB co-ax driver for midrange and highs). An owner of a pair of the Super-V just listed it on Audiogon, so you can look at it to get an idea of the look of the sub. The owner posted only one pic, and it's not a very good one. Maybe he'll send you some if you email him.

bdp24

Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik? Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings, but all the discussion of the sub takes place on the GR Research AudioCircle Forum. Danny is much more into them than Brian, and the GR customers are audiophiles while Rythmik's customers are more home theater guys, as are most sub owners, I take it.

The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. By the way, the 180Hz x/o frequency of the ET LFT-8b (from the panels to the sealed 8" woofer) makes the GR OB Sub a perfect replacement for the good-but-not-great woofer in the ET speaker. As with all Dipoles, there is a null at both sides of each sub, where the output from the front-firing and rear-firing woofers meet and cancel. So wherever in the room you place them, they need to face the listening position. Right next to the loudspeakers is a good starting location, but the controls on the Rythmik plate amp (rotary knob for phase 0 to 180 degrees, x/o frequency, damping, volume, etc) makes blending the sub with the speaker possible wherever it is located.

Danny Richie designed an Open baffle loudspeaker he named the Super-V, and it contains the OB/Dipole sub (with a 15" OB co-ax driver for midrange and highs). An owner of a pair of the Super-V just listed it on Audiogon, so you can look at it to get an idea of the look of the sub. The owner posted only one pic, and it's not a very good one. Maybe he'll send you some if you email him.

bdp24

Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik? Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings, but all the discussion of the sub takes place on the GR Research AudioCircle Forum. Danny is much more into them than Brian, and the GR customers are audiophiles while Rythmik's customers are more home theater guys, as are most sub owners, I take it.

The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. By the way, the 180Hz x/o frequency of the ET LFT-8b (from the panels to the sealed 8" woofer) makes the GR OB Sub a perfect replacement for the good-but-not-great woofer in the ET speaker. As with all Dipoles, there is a null at both sides of each sub, where the output from the front-firing and rear-firing woofers meet and cancel. So wherever in the room you place them, they need to face the listening position. Right next to the loudspeakers is a good starting location, but the controls on the Rythmik plate amp (rotary knob for phase 0 to 180 degrees, x/o frequency, damping, volume, etc) makes blending the sub with the speaker possible wherever it is located.

Danny Richie designed an Open baffle loudspeaker he named the Super-V, and it contains the OB/Dipole sub (with a 15" OB co-ax driver for midrange and highs). An owner of a pair of the Super-V just listed it on Audiogon, so you can look at it to get an idea of the look of the sub. The owner posted only one pic, and it's not a very good one. Maybe he'll send you some if you email him.

bdp24

Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik? Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings, but all the discussion of the sub takes place on the GR Research AudioCircle Forum. Danny is much more into them than Brian, and the GR customers are audiophiles while Rythmik's customers are more home theater guys, as are most sub owners, I take it.

The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. By the way, the 180Hz x/o frequency of the ET LFT-8b (from the panels to the sealed 8" woofer) makes the GR OB Sub a perfect replacement for the good-but-not-great woofer in the ET speaker. As with all Dipoles, there is a null at both sides of each sub, where the output from the front-firing and rear-firing woofers meet and cancel. So wherever in the room you place them, they need to face the listening position. Right next to the loudspeakers is a good starting location, but the controls on the Rythmik plate amp (rotary knob for phase 0 to 180 degrees, x/o frequency, damping, volume, etc) makes blending the sub with the speaker possible wherever it is located.

Danny Richie designed an Open baffle loudspeaker he named the Super-V, and it contains the OB/Dipole sub (with a 15" OB co-ax driver for midrange and highs). An owner of a pair of the Super-V just listed it on Audiogon, so you can look at it to get an idea of the look of the sub. The owner posted only one pic, and it's not a very good one. Maybe he'll send you some if you email him.

bdp24

Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik? Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings, but all the discussion of the sub takes place on the GR Research AudioCircle Forum. Danny is much more into them than Brian, and the GR customers are audiophiles while Rythmik's customers are more home theater guys, as are most sub owners, I take it.

The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. By the way, the 180Hz x/o frequency of the ET LFT-8b (from the panels to the sealed 8" woofer) makes the GR OB Sub a perfect replacement for the good-but-not-great woofer in the ET speaker. As with all Dipoles, there is a null at both sides of each sub, where the output from the front-firing and rear-firing woofers meet and cancel. So wherever in the room you place them, they need to face the listening position. Right next to the loudspeakers is a good starting location, but the controls on the Rythmik plate amp (rotary knob for phase 0 to 180 degrees, x/o frequency, damping, volume, etc) makes blending the sub with the speaker possible wherever it is located.

Danny Richie designed an Open baffle loudspeaker he named the Super-V, and it contains the OB/Dipole sub (with a 15" OB co-ax driver for midrange and highs). An owner of a pair of the Super-V just listed it on Audiogon, so you can look at it to get an idea of the look of the sub. The owner posted only one pic, and it's not a very good one. Maybe he'll send you some if you email him.

bdp24

Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik? Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings, but all the discussion of the sub takes place on the GR Research AudioCircle Forum. Danny is much more into them than Brian, and the GR customers are audiophiles while Rythmik's customers are more home theater guys, as are most sub owners, I take it.

The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. By the way, the 180Hz x/o frequency of the ET LFT-8b (from the panels to the sealed 8" woofer) makes the GR OB Sub a perfect replacement for the good-but-not-great woofer in the ET speaker. As with all Dipoles, there is a null at both sides of each sub, where the output from the front-firing and rear-firing woofers meet and cancel. So wherever in the room you place them, they need to face the listening position. Right next to the loudspeakers is a good starting location, but the controls on the Rythmik plate amp (rotary knob for phase 0 to 180 degrees, x/o frequency, damping, volume, etc) makes blending the sub with the speaker possible wherever it is located.

Danny Richie designed an Open baffle loudspeaker he named the Super-V, and it contains the OB/Dipole sub (with a 15" OB co-ax driver for midrange and highs). An owner of a pair of the Super-V just listed it on Audiogon, so you can look at it to get an idea of the look of the sub. The owner posted only one pic, and it's not a very good one. Maybe he'll send you some if you email him.

bdp24

Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik? Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings, but all the discussion of the sub takes place on the GR Research AudioCircle Forum. Danny is much more into them than Brian, and the GR customers are audiophiles while Rythmik's customers are more home theater guys, as are most sub owners, I take it.

The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. By the way, the 180Hz x/o frequency of the ET LFT-8b (from the panels to the sealed 8" woofer) makes the GR OB Sub a perfect replacement for the good-but-not-great woofer in the ET speaker. As with all Dipoles, there is a null at both sides of each sub, where the output from the front-firing and rear-firing woofers meet and cancel. So wherever in the room you place them, they need to face the listening position. Right next to the loudspeakers is a good starting location, but the controls on the Rythmik plate amp (rotary knob for phase 0 to 180 degrees, x/o frequency, damping, volume, etc) makes blending the sub with the speaker possible wherever it is located.

Danny Richie designed an Open baffle loudspeaker he named the Super-V, and it contains the OB/Dipole sub (with a 15" OB co-ax driver for midrange and highs). An owner of a pair of the Super-V just listed it on Audiogon, so you can look at it to get an idea of the look of the sub. The owner posted only one pic, and it's not a very good one. Maybe he'll send you some if you email him.

bdp24

Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik? Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings, but all the discussion of the sub takes place on the GR Research AudioCircle Forum. Danny is much more into them than Brian, and the GR customers are audiophiles while Rythmik's customers are more home theater guys, as are most sub owners, I take it.

The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. By the way, the 180Hz x/o frequency of the ET LFT-8b (from the panels to the sealed 8" woofer) makes the GR OB Sub a perfect replacement for the good-but-not-great woofer in the ET speaker. As with all Dipoles, there is a null at both sides of each sub, where the output from the front-firing and rear-firing woofers meet and cancel. So wherever in the room you place them, they need to face the listening position. Right next to the loudspeakers is a good starting location, but the controls on the Rythmik plate amp (rotary knob for phase 0 to 180 degrees, x/o frequency, damping, volume, etc) makes blending the sub with the speaker possible wherever it is located.

Danny Richie designed an Open baffle loudspeaker he named the Super-V, and it contains the OB/Dipole sub (with a 15" OB co-ax driver for midrange and highs). An owner of a pair of the Super-V just listed it on Audiogon, so you can look at it to get an idea of the look of the sub. The owner posted only one pic, and it's not a very good one. Maybe he'll send you some if you email him.

bdp24

Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik? Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings, but all the discussion of the sub takes place on the GR Research AudioCircle Forum. Danny is much more into them than Brian, and the GR customers are audiophiles while Rythmik's customers are more home theater guys, as are most sub owners, I take it.

The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. By the way, the 180Hz x/o frequency of the ET LFT-8b (from the panels to the sealed 8" woofer) makes the GR OB Sub a perfect replacement for the good-but-not-great woofer in the ET speaker. As with all Dipoles, there is a null at both sides of each sub, where the output from the front-firing and rear-firing woofers meet and cancel. So wherever in the room you place them, they need to face the listening position. Right next to the loudspeakers is a good starting location, but the controls on the Rythmik plate amp (rotary knob for phase 0 to 180 degrees, x/o frequency, damping, volume, etc) makes blending the sub with the speaker possible wherever it is located.

Danny Richie designed an Open baffle loudspeaker he named the Super-V, and it contains the OB/Dipole sub (with a 15" OB co-ax driver for midrange and highs). An owner of a pair of the Super-V just listed it on Audiogon, so you can look at it to get an idea of the look of the sub. The owner posted only one pic, and it's not a very good one. Maybe he'll send you some if you email him.

bdp24

Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik? Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings, but all the discussion of the sub takes place on the GR Research AudioCircle Forum. Danny is much more into them than Brian, and the GR customers are audiophiles while Rythmik's customers are more home theater guys, as are most sub owners, I take it.

The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. By the way, the 180Hz x/o frequency of the ET LFT-8b (from the panels to the sealed 8" woofer) makes the GR OB Sub a perfect replacement for the good-but-not-great woofer in the ET speaker. As with all Dipoles, there is a null at both sides of each sub, where the output from the front-firing and rear-firing woofers meet and cancel. So wherever in the room you place them, they need to face the listening position. Right next to the loudspeakers is a good starting location, but the controls on the Rythmik plate amp (rotary knob for phase 0 to 180 degrees, x/o frequency, damping, volume, etc) makes blending the sub with the speaker possible wherever it is located.

Danny Richie designed an Open baffle loudspeaker he named the Super-V, and it contains the OB/Dipole sub (with a 15" OB co-ax driver for midrange and highs). An owner of a pair of the Super-V just listed it on Audiogon, so you can look at it to get an idea of the look of the sub. The owner posted only one pic, and it's not a very good one. Maybe he'll send you some if you email him.

bdp24

Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik? Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings, but all the discussion of the sub takes place on the GR Research AudioCircle Forum. Danny is much more into them than Brian, and the GR customers are audiophiles while Rythmik's customers are more home theater guys, as are most sub owners, I take it.

The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. By the way, the 180Hz x/o frequency of the ET LFT-8b (from the panels to the sealed 8" woofer) makes the GR OB Sub a perfect replacement for the good-but-not-great woofer in the ET speaker. As with all Dipoles, there is a null at both sides of each sub, where the output from the front-firing and rear-firing woofers meet and cancel. So wherever in the room you place them, they need to face the listening position. Right next to the loudspeakers is a good starting location, but the controls on the Rythmik plate amp (rotary knob for phase 0 to 180 degrees, x/o frequency, damping, volume, etc) makes blending the sub with the speaker possible wherever it is located.

Danny Richie designed an Open baffle loudspeaker he named the Super-V, and it contains the OB/Dipole sub (with a 15" OB co-ax driver for midrange and highs). An owner of a pair of the Super-V just listed it on Audiogon, so you can look at it to get an idea of the look of the sub. The owner posted only one pic, and it's not a very good one. Maybe he'll send you some if you email him.

bdp24

Did you email GR Research, or Rythmik? Rythmik lists the OB Sub kit in their product listings, but all the discussion of the sub takes place on the GR Research AudioCircle Forum. Danny is much more into them than Brian, and the GR customers are audiophiles while Rythmik's customers are more home theater guys, as are most sub owners, I take it.

The OB Sub can be used up to around 300Hz, so a stereo pair is the norm. By the way, the 180Hz x/o frequency of the ET LFT-8b (from the panels to the sealed 8" woofer) makes the GR OB Sub a perfect replacement for the good-but-not-great woofer in the ET speaker. As with all Dipoles, there is a null at both sides of each sub, where the output from the front-firing and rear-firing woofers meet and cancel. So wherever in the room you place them, they need to face the listening position. Right next to the loudspeakers is a good starting location, but the controls on the Rythmik plate amp (rotary knob for phase 0 to 180 degrees, x/o frequency, damping, volume, etc) makes blending the sub with the speaker possible wherever it is located.

Danny Richie designed an Open baffle loudspeaker he named the Super-V, and it contains the OB/Dipole sub (with a 15" OB co-ax driver for midrange and highs). An owner of a pair of the Super-V just listed it on Audiogon, so you can look at it to get an idea of the look of the sub. The owner posted only one pic, and it's not a very good one. Maybe he'll send you some if you email him.

bdp24

Owner
Here is an older pic of my Wayne Picquet Quad 57's in Room B - (in progress still) :^(

Quad 57 - Room B

The arrows each show a different sub placement identified by a number. Each time the sub is on the floor where the point is :^) - furniture in the way on some numbers.

Room is 22 feet wide. 18 feet deep with a stair case that leads to an insulated door to the main floor. In the pic I am standing in the doorway of Room A that I mentioned in the previous post which. If I leave Room A door open, it makes Room B's (Length) & volume much larger. A medium room anyway imo? A large room to me is where you go to see movies.

Like this

The Quads are wearing their screens in this older pic. Are 7 feet from the front wall. The high positioning (Arcici stands on the black concrete bricks) eliminates the one person in a narrow listening spot scenario that u read alot about. In this setup you can actually stand up and walk around. Although the center voice will follow u around. Kinda of cool. Is this not what singers do on stage anyway ? Move around :^)
This space outside of Room A is sort of a backwards number 7. What can be seen is the top of the seven - the bottom of the 7 split out by the curtain on the right.

Two subs are better for balancing out the room waves but for purposes of having some fun and learning here. Assume you are only using one large sub 12 inch conventional woofer. Using low level line outputs from preamp. Sub has full features including volume, and crossover frequency controls.

What position (arrow/number) do feel works best in this room/setup according to my ears :^) with Quad 57's.

Guesses ?

***************************************

Bdp24 - There is a DIY sub that is unusually good with Quads.......

......The OB Sub DIY kit is available from both GR Research and Rythmik, and the plans for the W- and H-frames can be found on the GR website
thanks Bdp24. I have added them to my search and actually sent the company an email outlining my room/speaker requirements. I will let you guys know what they come back with. I look forward to a guess from you on the above exercise. :^)

ct0517

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